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How to fix the EOS 5/A2 Command Dial.
Also works for the EOS 100/Elan.
Contents
Introduction
The EOS 5/A2/A2e has a commonly reoccurring problem. The Command Dial (the one on the top left of the camera) sometimes fails. There are actually two related problems with somewhat different symptoms that this document will address. The same, or very similar problems occur with the EOS 100/Elan cameras as well. Both cameras can be fixed in much the same way. In fact, the repair procedure pictures that accompany this document are of an Elan.
The first and probably most common problem is the Command Dial will spin freely but actually do nothing. It's like the dial itself is disconnected from the camera, without detenting and no control of the camera. This is usually caused by the plastic rivets that hold the external parts of the dial together to the actual mechanism below, have broken and need to be replaced.
The second common problem is the Command Dial will spin freely, without detenting, but still controls the camera functions correctly. This is caused by the detenting spring and/or the detenting ball being displaced from their proper position.
Either of these problems can quickly lead to the other and are often found together. You should note that Canon's standard fix for this problem is to replace the whole top of the camera. For a long time this simply meant that your camera was subject to the same thing happening again. I understand that Canon has redesigned the replacement part and hopefully this will cure the problem for good. Also Horizon Electronics, a Canon dealer and repair center in California has come up with a fix that replaces the weak plastic rivets with metal screws. As far as I know, this is a permanent fix as well. The following instructions are probably similar in concept to Horizon's fix.
What most photographers report happening first is that the Command Dial becomes stiff & the detenting is too hard or feels like it's grinding. Personally, I would fix it as soon as I noticed this, since the repair would be easier and probably would only require the replacement or shortening of the spring.
The repair of these problems are not usually difficult, but you do need some technical ability and a sense of adventure since you are about to destroy what use to be a perfectly good camera. Just kidding. Actually, if you get the camera apart and give up trying to fix it, you probably haven't done anything that will cost you more to repair than before you started.
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The Fix
What You Will Need
You will need a good small (size 0) Philips screwdriver, and small forceps or very thin needle nose pliers. If your problem is the first one above, you will also need a very small drill bit to remove the broken rivets and drill holes for the two very small screws that you will need to replace the rivets with. These can be found at jeweler's supply houses or perhaps watchmakers shops. You may also need to replace the small but stiff detent spring and perhaps the detent ball if it has disappeared.
The spring and detent ball are about 2mm in diameter. The stiff push type detent spring on the Elan is about 6-8mm long. It's been a while since I had an EOS 5/A2 apart but I do remember that the spring was longer on it. Perhaps 10-12mm. All these are very rough estimates based on visual estimates and a rather poor memory. Perhaps someone would be willing to provide better measurements when they do the repair. The screws that I used had a diameter of the threaded part of just a bit over 1mm. These are small screws and might be hard to find. I retrieved them from several old lenses.
I have found a reasonably good supply of small springs and screws at my local Lowe's Hardware store. But there are also good small part/tool suppliers that advertise on the web. Check out www.mcmaster.com or www.microfasteners.com or www.harborfreight.com
Getting to the Heart of the Matter
First you need to remove the top of the camera. There is a screw inside the flash on the EOS 5/A2 models, so pop the flash up before you remove the battery & look in the front of the flash housing. The EOS 100/Elan has this screw in front and below the flash instead. To remove the top cover you also need to remove the front cover of the EOS 5/A2 and the door latch assembly, just to get at all the screws. With the Elan you can just loosen the front cover since it doesn't hide any screws. Don't forget the screw over by the right strap lug, and the ones in back beside the viewfinder.
The screws in front are under the front cover plate of the EOS 5/A2 but are exposed on the EOS 100/Elan. (That's why you don't have to remove the front cover plate of the Elan.) To remove the front cover plate of the EOS 5/A2 you will need to remove several screws on the bottom of the camera, and perhaps one by the battery compartment. (Sorry I can't remember this part clearly, it's been too long since I had an EOS 5/A2 to work with.)
There is also a screw inside the battery housing that holds the top cover as well. The battery housing is completely different with these two cameras and it's much easier to get at the screw of the EOS 5/A2. On the Elan, the screw you want in the battery compartment is the center one. It also holds a small cover plate that should be removed with the screw. When you think you've gotten all the screws out, start wiggling the top cover off. Don't pry it or use too much force. If it seems stuck in some area (it probably will) it's probably a screw that you missed. Keep looking.
Once the top cover is loosed, pull it up and pull the small ribbon cable out of it's rectangular white connector on top of the mirror housing. You can get it loose by lifting the top collar of the white connector up first, then the ribbon cable will come loose. The rest of the wires can be left alone for what you need to do. You'll want to have more space & will be tempted to remove more wires. You can if you want, but you really don't need to. Just pull the top cover up and lay it over the front of the camera.
Now you can see the Command Dial. The small metal detent ball is usually just laying around stuck in the grease somewhere close. The spring that pushes it will still be there as well but it may be twisted beyond use. Be careful that you don't loose this spring even if it is destroyed, as you will need it to help determine a proper size to replace it with. There is another spring in this mechanism that pushes up the lock release button (the button in the center of the Command Dial). This spring is larger in diameter but uses smaller wire and is much less stiff. To get at it all you will need to remove the screw in the center of the Command Dial that holds the lock release button to the metal tab.
The Fix is In
The way it's supposed to work is, the spring & ball are in the center of the Command Dial just under (since you are holding this upside down) the metal tab piece that is connected to the lock release button (the button in the center of the Command Dial). The spring is supposed to push the ball into the slots in the metal cage, providing the detenting action while you turn the dial to different exposure modes.
The picture shows an EOS 100/Elan Command Dial. The EOS 5/A2 dial looks a little different, but functionally is it nearly the same. Also the picture shows the two screws that have replaced the black plastic rivet heads.
If the problem with your camera is just the detenting action is missing, you would simply need to put the spring & ball back in their positions between the plastic side rails that hold them in (these are just molded parts of the Dial) & just under (since you are holding this upside down) the metal tab piece that is connected to the lock release button. But if your camera's problem is the plastic rivets that hold the metal piece to the Command Dial are broken, you will need to replace them with very tiny screws. You might be able to find some suitable screws in old photo equipment, or watch/clock works. Then drill very small holes for the screws with a tiny drill bit. Then place all the parts into position and screwed it all back together. Only a bit easier said than done.
This picture shows the holes that were drilled for the screws. The holes are in exactly the same position that the rivets were. The rivets, by the way, are in reality just small stick-like extensions of the Command Dial plastic. To drill the holes first cut off the rivets flush with the dial base. Then use a pointed tool (a nail will work) to force a small dimple in the dial where the rivets were. This will assist you in lining up and holding the dril bit in the proper place.
These holes and the screws that go in them are very close to the center of the Command Dial. and they may cause the center hole of the Dial to become deformed, tightening the Command Dial's lock release button considerably. A couple of times I have resorted to whittling on various parts to make it work again.
If the detent spring is still intact you can re-use it, but cut 2 coils off of one end to loosen the tension. That excess tension is one of the main problems with the dial. The little ball is just being pressed too hard and too deep into the slots of the cage. Loosening the tension of the spring will relieve the pressure on the detent ball. If you can't use the same spring find another that has a little less tension. Small push type springs can be hard to find. You can substitute the more common pull-type spring by stretching it out so that it becomes a push-type spring. Also a ball with a LITTLE larger diameter can be used to lessen how far the ball goes into the cage. In that case you would want to keep the spring tension high.
You may notice in the pictures of the Command Dial that I have tapered or rounded off the lower edge of the plastic latch, where the metal tab piece of the lock release button rests in home position. This allows me to turn the Command Dial from the locked position to the Creative Mode positions without pushing the lock release button. If you round off the other side you would have the same function for the PIC Mode side of the dial. Since I seldom use PIC Modes, I left that side unaltered. This provides a dial stop for the locked position.
Re-assembly
After you have the Command Dial back together, reattach the flash's ribbon cable and tighten it's collar down into position. Then you just line the Command Dial's actuating slot (on the opposite side of the dial from the detent ball), with the clear plastic pin sticking up from the rotary switch inside the camera, and place the top back on. You may have to work at keeping the flash compartment's wires routed to places that don't hinder the top from easily and fully coming to rest in it's proper place. Then put all the screws back into their right holes. Good as new. Better than new actually, as it shouldn't happen again.
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Revision History
v1.1b 2002 Aug 25 jul: reformat into template
v1.1 2002 Mar 22 Corrected and expanded with pictures added.
v1.0 2002 Mar 16 Repost of the previous with some formatting changes.
v0.1 Comments posted on Photo.net
Comments
Joni Tefke emailed me with some correction comments & suggestions having to do with the EOS 5/A2. It has been too long since I had one apart myself & didn't remember these details. He gave me permission to post them, so I'll post here for now. Later I'll take the time to update the document and include them as well."A couple of comments concering EOS 5 (and A2):
1) Actually, there are no screws under the front cover plate. However to loosen the top cover you need to take the front cover plate off, because some parts of the top are under the front cover.
2) To remove the front cover plate there are five screws: 2 beside lens bayonet (under flash), two in the battery compartment, and one on the bottom of the camera (under the lens, pointing upwards).
3) The front cover won't come off unless you also remove the door latch assembly: 2 screws
4) The connector for ribbon cable (on the top of mirror housing) is on the left side of mirror housing in EOS 5 (In EOS 100 it seems to be on the right)
5) A good source for tiny screws are old PC / laptop stuff. These screws are made for plastic. I found it difficult to use screws for watches etc. (for metal), because the spiral groove is too shallow
Joni"
Also included with his email was a picture of the EOS showing where all these cover screw are. Until I get this updated, you can email me for a copy if you need it.
Jim Strutz
Jim Strutz 10/04/2002 02:27:07
Haven't tried with actual film, but apparently the camera works fine now. I had the two problems you described: the command dial would do nothing, and it didn't click as you turned it.
Instead of a small drill bit I used a needle on locking pliers and a cigarette lighter to make it red hot, and with that I "drilled" the holes. I took excess plastic off with a surgical blade.
My screws came from an old video camera, plastic screws, perfect.
Thank you a lot foor the procedure. Very easy, very "doable". Have a nice Thanksgiving (Canadian),
Gui
Guilherme Maranhão 10/14/2002 12:01:36 PM
My eos 5 just developed this problem today and your repair manual was one of the first things that came up on google.com. I'm very happy to see that someone has gone through the trouble of documenting this. I'm going to try it out on my camera just now.
Thanks a lot!
Dirk Stoop 2/4/2003 12:52:36 AM
I just found out that the spring from a cheap cigarette lighter works perfectly in my eos 5 command-dial. You'll just have to cut it to size.
Thanks again,
Dirk Stoop 2/4/2003 3:26:54 AM
My A2E's command dial failed in the locked position (off). Anyone knows how to remove the screws inside the flash as I cannot turn the camera on and the flash won't popup otherwise??
If not, I am facing a very costly (UK prices) repair bill!!
Please mail me at taquechi@yahoo.com Thanks.
ben 2/23/2003 5:25:22 PM
Hello
I have an EOS 50 (I think its called Elan II in the US). The Quick Control Dial on the back does not work. It doesnt feel any different than it used to, but there is no effect when I spin it.
It may be a problem with either the dial itself or the On/Off button beside it. I have disassembled the back and tested the On/Off switch with an ohmmeter, and I think its functioning correctly. It may also be a problem in the circuit.
Do you have any information about this problem?
rolf 3/11/2003 6:09:26 PM
The only way I could fix my dial is to superglue the dial to the metallic part that goes on the inside of the camera top. It's a crude method, but it works if you can't get your hands on tiny screws. Forget about replacing the ball and the spring. It's a bad design all around. So even if you get the clicking back, eventually the metallic piece will break away from the dial and you'll have to excavate your A2E again.
I did have an issue with the flat cable connector which you have to disconnect in order to get a better access to the top panel. Either while disconnecting or while inserting back, I damaged the silver lines. You'll know if you have the same problem if your flash pops up and down three times, followed by blinking empty battery on the LCD. I repaired the end of this flat cable by yet another crude method. From an auto shop I purchased a defogger repair kit and used the conductive paint to redraw the lines. Use of powerful magnifying glass is a must! You can either draw the lines or the opposite, paint the entire end and scratch out the breaks with a needle. (I did it using the second method).
Good luck, and better you not damage the flat cable to begin with.
Yevgeniy 5/22/2003 6:57:57 PM
I just wanted to also thank you for the instructions, I've just successfully repaired my camera. I had the additional complication that the dial broke while in the L position and thus I could not open the flash to unscrew the front. My solution was not pretty as I drilled a hole through the dial, through the camera top and all the way down to the metal cap to be able to turn it and turn the camera on. after that, it was easy to carry this procedure. Also, I'd like to suggest a tools-free approach: If the dial moves freely, and you don't care about the racketing functionality, just superglue the center button to the dial (make sure the button is in the down/unlock position). This way turning the dial will turn the button, which is connected to the internal switch. You can repair your camera in 10 sec. flat!! Wish I knew that before drilling :( -
Ben 6/5/2003 7:04:13 PM
jim brilliant manual fo eos 50e canon should be thankfull to you they have no backup aftersale jonh o donoghue.
john o donoghue 6/16/2003 8:49:07 PM
Great dial fix, many many thanks, the U.K. repair coast quoted for this is £125.00!
If took me 2 hours feeling my way including going to the store for two 12BA screws.
I found a spring in a toy train coupling.
Great value repair, and easy too.
Alan
Alan Crotty 6/26/2003 3:25:15 PM
Another EOS A2 fixed due to this page. Thanks all.
My biggest problem was that the camera was stuck in
the 'off' position, and thus I couldn't raise the flash
to get at one of the screws. Comments from another
contributor (thanks Ben) helped me around this problem.
Also, for screws, I found that the ones used to hold
together the little 4mm computer tape cartridges work
really well. They are a little too long, and need to
be shortened a little bit (grinder, file, whatever),
but they worked well after trimming them.
Thanks all - much appreciated.
-John
John F 8/16/2003 8:53:04 PM
You don't mention discharging the built in flash capacitor.
If you don;t discharge the flash capacitor you could severely damage the camera and potentially injure the person
working on the camera
Paul T 8/27/2003 4:18:07 PM
Damnation, that's cool. My A2's been broken and taped into permanent full-auto, point-and-shoot service for three years. Took less than two hours to fix, and would've been quicker if'n I had some screws immediately available.
Three comments:
- I scavanged some screws from and old pair of broken sunglasses. You could probably get them from the little eyeglasses repair kits available at most grocery store check-outs.
- Not sure how you'd discharge the capacitors, but if there's an easy, safe way to do it, find it. You _will_ discharge them, um, manually, otherwise, and they pack a kick.
- Make sure everything's lined up, all the CF buttons, etc, work when depressed, all the flash wires are located correctly BEFORE reassembly. Otherwise, you'll become an expert at rapid screw removal and replacement in the next couple hours. DAMHIKT...
Thanks for your efforts with this page, Jim.
Scott 8/31/2003 2:46:18 PM
Hello Jim
Using your manual for the dial fix, from somewere out of my EOS5 fell a small metal part witch i discribe as W shaped one side is round 2mm and 5 mm long the rest is made out of flat metal 5mm wide and 0.5 mm thik the flat part is bend Z shaped and on one end is the round pin so together it is W shaped.Hope you still have not lost me and know were it should fit in the camera.
Please resond soon, because i need the camera badley.
Thanks Loek.
Loek 9/15/2003 6:24:23 PM
Hi!
Didn't fix it myself, but I took the camera apart in order to check that the shop did it. Please note, that there is a small screw hidden behind the strap holder not mentioned anywhere.
And a now note of warning!!
DO NOT REMOVE THE BOTTOM COVER!!!
Because you need to release the flash while the camera is on in order to remove the screw hiding under it, the flash will be charged!!! I removed it and accidentally touched the coil....
I now have burn marks on my little finger, my heart didn't stop racing or my hands shaking for five minutes and I'm still wating for the cops to shop up resulting from my scream of pain.
A major rush, but I don't recommend it.
Tero Rantaruikka 11/20/2003 2:50:55 PM
This guide helped me on the way to repair my EOS 5...
But there are a few issues not mentioned as the cameras seems different. Joni Tefke got a few of them but i have a few more issues.
i cannot remove the top lid without desoldering a thin blue wire that is routed thru a small hole in the top lid, and it is short enough to stop me from tilting forward/upward.
There is 2 wires (grey/orange) that goes to the small electric motor for the flash, they are also too short...
I did manage to access the broken dial, but i noticed that i need the "big repair" (small screws-drilling...
this will not be funny when the top is really close to the rest of the body
ill get some screws from a store that sells/repairs glasses and i already have a spring from a cigarette-lighter
this turned out to be a 2 day's work due to lack of tools, things (spring&screws)
but it will be working...
/cheers
Niclas Oberg 11/22/2003 10:02:58 PM
I could flip the plastic top 180 degrees by toatlly removing the front plastic cover and trace the thin blue wire down to the lens base (a simple soldering point) and i could remove my lid
the only thin that is connected right now is the grey/orange ones to the electric motor, but they can be as they are atm
But i found out the hard way that the drilling has to be done in the Dial, no where else...
when the screw in the center of the dial is removed, the dial can be removed from the top :(
that means i did some soldering for nothing...
anyway, ill bring the dial to my dad who is a goldsmith and he has some fine tools for this job
Remember where each screw goes, they have different lengths and diameters
the one by the flash is the smallest, the 2 by the ocular are the shortest, the silvery one are the top one inside the battery case
Niclas Oberg 11/22/2003 10:35:00 PM
Great site...lifesaver. That little blue wire broke my heart for a while till my pliers accidently cut it off, oh well! Might re route it inside the hole so the top can come off easier next time. (confidence!) Anybody reccommend otherwise?
Having a tough job finding a spring for the detent, might wind some wire around a thin screwdriver to make a new one.
My MD walkman was the screw donor, however, they screw into metal in their former life so ihope they'll hold out in plastic. Threads are v-fine for this job.
A lighter detent is a great idea, that thing always sounded like it was about to blow when turning the dial!!
Ollie 5/3/2004 10:39:24 AM
Wow I finally got it...2 months of putting off from a failed first attempt and within an hour, I had the whole thing disassebled, reassebled and ready to go. My makeshift screws were from my old shockwave walkman. A bit long (not by much) but it still did the trick. I'm not sure if everyone's been trying to take off the top cover completely, but I did it no problem with the cover fully connected (wire-wise anyway).
SAVE YOURSELF THE 100-200 BUCKS (plus parts!!!) DO THIS YOURSELF, IT'S EASY. Thanks for the reference guide!
Jeff 6/7/2004 9:25:46 PM
Hallo, I write from Germany, my english isn't the best. Thank you for your explanations. I've found your site by looking for a repair guide for my old A1 (Mirror quiek) and I found a solution for that and the EOS 5 Dial Fix.
So, I bought a low price, new looking EOS 5 body with lens , marked with broken Dial, by ebay and now after 3 hours of working I have a fine, new looking camera.
I took the screws fom an old part giving AE1 Body bottom cover, but I have also found a great variation of scews by a optician who repairs glasses too.
The greatest challenge is to keep calm and to find the right tools an a third hand to hold the camera top with the cables attached, holding the screw, the screwdriver and drill them. It took some time to find out, that it is possible to fix the metal and the dial first and then thread in the ball and the spring through a hole in the metall ring.
Again thank you
Arpad
Arpad 7/21/2004 8:43:55 AM
Many thanks, it took some hours but saved ~ 150 Euro.
Instead of the smal spring (was damaged and disapeared) I used a little peace of rubber and it is working fine.
Regards from Germany
Roland
Roland Giesen 7/23/2004 1:09:59 AM
Too bad I didn't read this before I went on safari in africa. My camera broke the 2nd day, but thanks to a pocket leatherman and some mechinical skill, I comlpetly dissasembled the camera, reomeved the broken dial, then fashioned a paperclip to work as a replacment dial. Thanks god it worked and the trip was not wasted. Thanks to your site, I have a better idea on what screws to use and the spring size. One tip.... if your camera breaks again in the on position, use the battery cover release to turn the camera off. If you turn it about 45 degrees from the locked postition, the camera shuts off and your battery is not wasted... but you loose all your settings (doesn't reset the counter though). Also, I would strongly reccomend taking the knob off the camera to drill the holes for the screws and do it wit the metal cage in place. If you don't have the cage centered properly, it can cause major issues!!
Scott 8/17/2004 9:22:18 PM
Ben's ten second repair job, using glue and no camera disassembly, worked great. But if you wish to go through the full fix, then use your thumb, hold down the centre button and the dial together, and turn. The camera will turn on, allowing you to flip up the flash and get to the screw there. Good Luck to all and thanks Ben......Ken
ken 10/3/2004 3:42:23 PM
I haven't monitored this section for quite some time. I appreciate the kind words. I had fun writing this.
But I really got to say thanks to several of you who posted improved ideas about things like how to turn the camera on with a broken dial (Ben & Ken), and where to find screws, springs & such. I especially liked Scott's idea of drilling the holes with the metal parts in place. That's bound to make things easier.
One good thing about these cameras getting old is that you can pick them up for very little these days. I just bought an EOS 5 on eBay real cheap and did the repair for the first time in a couple of years myself. I hope this document continues to be an asset.
Jim Strutz 10/27/2004 2:42:13 AM
Hi to all my Photography Friends,
I've repaired many of these cameras myself and find your site interesting. I was very surprised to find no reference to buying a service manual or to buying new parts from a Canon Camera Dealer. The manual is cheap and very available, with tons of usefull imformation. Like; how and where in the curcuitry to discharge the flash caps. How to raise the flash unit when the mode dial is broken. The disassembly and reassembly procedure by the numbers and what to undo or not and where the different screws go ect. ect.
The little spring has been superceded to a lighter type years ago. The dial has been completely redesigned and beefed up. I found the parts easily available and very cheap expensewise.
I find it interesting that men just don't like to read and follow directions, I know because I am one.
Don't quit taking film pictures, Digital is not the answer. Once people find out the weaknesses of digital they will be sorry they dumped their Film Photo gear.
Thanks for your site, Path
Path of Light 2/6/2005 9:51:48 PM
Hi,
Thank you very much for your guide for the EOS5 Command Dial Fix.
I was looking for a film EOS to complement my EOS 10D. After some research on photo.net I was aiming for an EOS 5 or EOS 50. I also got the link to your site via photo.net and then started to look for damaged EOS 5.
A week ago I bought a used EOS 5 which was offered as "damaged with broken command dial" via E-Bay. It arrived today and it took me about 3 hours to fix it. So now I have my first film EOS for 100 Euros. Great.
Best regards,
Thomas.
Thomas 2/26/2005 6:45:02 PM
Just bought a eos 5 off ebay, and youd never guess it, the dial is broken....Hubbys just having a go at fixing it, fingers crossed as Im shooting a wedding in 3 days..Bumma
joanne 4/20/2005 8:16:48 AM
I just bought a EOS100 from ebay today with a broken command dial. I knew I could crudely ensure the camera was set to my desired shutter/aperture combination and use it as an emergency backup in the studio ( I use a hand held meter). Out of curiosity I thought I would 'google' the problem, and up popped your site! It is things like this that makes the internet worth while! I have no doubt that when I get round to ut I will, thanks to you, have a fully functioning eos100 for peanuts. Thanks again!!!!
anthony 4/27/2005 9:32:39 PM
I got a fully functioning A2E in pretty much new shape, with the understanding that the dial would break. I knew about this site before I bought the camera (did my homework) It is a great site. Thank you.
The dial problem makes the camera value lower than it would be otherwise I think, but figured I could handle the fix when I needed to, so the lower cost was good.
Had the camera about a month before the dial broke. Thats when I started looking for the tools and parts. Here's some things I learned:
1. Bic lighter springs are way too big. At least the lighter I bought.
2. Old point and shoots are a great source of screws and springs. Had an old non working cheapy minolta. slavaged it for parts.
3. A pair of very sharp (L shaped) tweezers are essential.
4. Work over a table and have a flashligh handy when the little ball drops to the floor.
5. A needle in a dremel tool is perfect for making little holes (learned this years ago) the friction heats up the plastic and you can push gently through it to make a hole. Drill bits do the same thing but are bigger and the plastic clogs the drill. Holes in plastic is about heat.
6. Use a 1/16" bit after the needle between your thumb and finger to clear away a little conter-sink for the screw to self thread into.
7. The A2E/5's metal parts are different than the elan pictured here. There is actually a detening spot on the round part that lets the ball go through it (will break the spring and make you starts over), so you have to make sure that you line this up with the OPPOSITE side of the dial from the empty function spot on the top of the dial. This makes sure that the gap in the metal disk doesn't ever get to the ball.
8. The metal disk has to be very tight against the dial plastic or it jumps and the detoning gets stuck.
This took me longer than 3 hours, and it felt like surgery the whole time. I prety much had to reverse engineer the whole thing to know how to make everything line up right and function smoothly. What a poor design.
Anyway, thanks for keeping this site up and for going through the trouble of putting it together. It allowed me to get e great camera, at a price I can afford.
Timo McIntosh 2005Jun18 11:49:10 -0700
This saved my pride.
I bought an EOS5 on ebay and within a day the command dial had broken. I'd been raving about the camera to everyone and was distraught when it broke. I opened it up and got access to the command dial easy enough. The spring had broken and so I used a spring from an 50p lighter and managed to realign the bearing. Not a perfect fit but good enough. Although it does not click onto every setting it does now lock onto L which is what I really wanted. It now works well and I can easily fix if it buggers up again. Thank you.
Rob 2005Jun24 07:48:21 -0700
Thanks a lot!!! It took 4 hours of sweating but I did it, just removed the ball and the spring and rounded off both edges of the plastic latch, where the metal tab piece of the lock release button rests in home position, so no need to press the button before turning now and there is no spring to worry about too ;-) I also had a problem with flash, it just wouldnt open, so I had to fix it as well to get to the screw that's inside, it is very simple fix, here is the link
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=000xmg good luck to everyone
Uladzimir Fedasenka 2005Sep20 12:40:08 -0700
Hi there, My EOS 5 Command Dial broke just hours before I was to do photos for a wedding. I was luck that I could at least get it to turn on even if I didn't know what function it was in!
Anyhow I got a quote for repairs $240. I thought I would try Ebay for a service manual but found this page on Google (down near the end so I was lucky to notice it!).
So I dug out my size ) phillips head Jewlers screwdriver (sitting in the pen cup on the desk after frantic search of shed!!) and set to work pulling my precious 5 apart. The extra comments about the 5 were really good but I would like to add some extras.
In the reassembly section, the Command dial's actuating slot on the five is on the same side as the spring so in the lock position the switch lug is on the outside. you can check the off position by putting the battery in and cover on. The flash will go up and down as the ribbon is disconnected but you can work ot he off position.
Putting the ball and spring back in was a bit daunting until I realised that the it can be done after putting thedial and cage back together.
I managed to loose the spring and no-one in town had another. I was directed to the music shop where I got a 0.23mm (0.009 inch) steel guitar string. I made a sping by winding it around a paper clip wire exactly 1mm diameter. The spring was then trimed to length and tension.
For the screws into the plastic dial I got some from an old digital watch and got the local jewler to drill 0.5mm holes.
The whole repair works a treat. Thank very much.
If you need to resort to getting parts from Canon the numbers are
Comand Dial CB1-2594-110 (EOS 5)
CB1-3323-070 (A2)
An extra part for the Canon mod CY4-0166
detenting cage CB1-2597-060
Spring CS2-5604
ball bearing XG8-1100-581
Thanks heaps for the advice!
Craig Flemming 2005Nov20 23:02:34 -0800
Love the information, but seems so involved taking screws out, drilling holes, etc. I have a Canon EOS Elan. Used very few times and yet one day the command dial would not work. Just spins. Looks like this problem is more commond than I thought. Cannon Corp was of no help. They just want you to send the camera to them and THEN they will tell you the repair cost. Is there a easier more understandable way to fix this command dial for someone not too smart? Thank you
Irene 2005Dec13 14:06:41 -0800
Does this fix work for the EOS 10 too ?
Stewart Johnson 2006Jan27 10:56:05 -0800
HOW TO RAISE THE FLASH.
One common problem with the command dial fix is not being able to raise the flash. If the flash is down and the dial fails with the power off, the flash can't be raised to get to the screw underneath. There are a few suggestions which deal with this problem. Most of them involve damaging the comand dial. There is a much easier way.
Here is how you raise the flash on the EOS 5 / A2 with the power off. Remove all the screws that you can get to and then work the front panel loose from it's clips. You won't be able to remove it fully as the screw under the flash is preventing it's complete removal.
Now carefully work the top assembly (containing the command dial and flash) loose from it's clips. You will only be able to raise it a few millimeters at first. Do not force it. Make sure that you have removed the eyeguard from around the viewfinder. While looking at the view finder carefully place pressure on the top assembly and lift it up as far as it will go without forcing. You are trying to create around a 1/4 inch gap above the viewfinder.
Look inside this gap and on the right hand side, directly under the flash, you will see a few gear wheels. These are connected to the motor which raises the flash. Insert a paper clip or piece of wire in the gap and rotate the gears. If the gears don't rotate with little resistance, but spring back a little, then you are rotating them the wrong way. After about 10 rotations of the wheel you will notice that the flash can be raised up a little bit. Keep rotating the gears and the flash will be free to raise up fully. It may take 20 or 30 rotations of the gear. It sometimes helps to lift up on the flash while rotating the gear.
The flash unit can now be raised and lowered without resistance. When power is restored to the camera, the flash will automatically lock itself. So make sure that you fix the problem before you restore power or you will have to repeat the process.
Good luck.
Tim Mitchell 2006Mar24 16:26:18 -0800
It's threads like this that remind me of the all that is good about the web.
I'm currently staioned in Antarctica for 12 months, and have two faithful old Eos 5s with me which I use extensively. Imagine my dismay when two weeks after the last ship left the command dial broke on one of them - bearing in mind the next ship arrives in nine months.
The fix worked very well (although finding parts on station was a challenge). In the end I chose to sacrifice the spring and ball bearing as although I found a spring that did the job, it seemed quite unstable in the dial and I was concerned it would jump out of position and jam the mechanism again. Depsite the lack of detenting it works very well and locks in the off position to prevent accidentally draining the battery.
I'm very pleased. Thanks for the excellent advice.
Medical Officer, Davis Station, Antarctica.
Graham Denyer 2006Apr09 09:58:59 -0700
You wrote
An extra part for the Canon mod CY4-0166
What part is that?
And ball bearing XG8-1100-581 is that not just the ball itself?
Thanks
Johan de Roodt 2006May04 06:06:49 -0700
http://thefotogeeks.com/diagrams/Canon_Film_SLR/EOS_A2.pdf
A digram of the parts for the EOS
JR 2006May05 05:14:56 -0700
You guessed it COMMAND DIAL FAILIURE! And after many hours desperately searching for a schematic service manual for diy fixing of my canon Eos A2E i came across this website and was amazed at the wealth of information and help provided on this site to remedy the problem. To all concerned, many thanks go out as something so simple for a diy repair has saved me the cost of parts and labour to the approx sum on average of £100 plus! Whereas Canon and many other repair centres only tell you they will replace the entire top cover (command dial included) to rectify one tiny fault that is such a bad design on their part anyways. Yours Very Gratefully James...
James 2007Jan21 12:40:48 -1000
Great site! Vey helpful information from all. For those of you who lose/break a part, you can buy all the parts from www.bocaphoto.com for about $15 US! I superglued mine together and it works fine.
Steve Guiel 2007Jun06 04:22:16 -1000
GREAT SITE!!! I JUST GOT AN A2 WITH AN A2E TOP(DIAL,ETC.) WILL THIS WORK RIGHT???
CHET 2007Jul30 12:00:25 -1000
Seriously good information. My A2E failed my last day in Florida.
Disassembly pretty straight forward. Do keep track of the small screws and where they came from.
I did not have any trouble with the infamous blue wire and was able to work the top off and to a workable angle. But do be careful that you don't pull anything apart.
After removing the dial and click plate and other parts. I clamped the click plate to the dial in the proper orientation and used a little drill bit for my Dremel. 2 small screws from an old DAT cartridge that I shortened now secure the unit. I had the ball bearing but the spring was shot so I reassembled without the detent. The locking off position still works. Hobby stores are a good place to find small screws and little drill bits.
As mentioned earlier in on this page boca photo has the parts (dials for the e100, a2, a2e, springs, ball bearings etc). Here is a link (scroll to the bottom of the page for the command dial parts):
http://www.bocaphoto.com/products/new/canon/canonacc.htm
rollei35guy 2007Sep05 13:36:49 -1000
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yzogtklp 2007Oct12 05:18:22 -1000
Great Info!! Awesome advice! Got the whole thing apart and ready to put back together and $%#^()!!! dropped the ball bearing IN THE CAMERA ...grrrr...unrecoverable...anybody know what size the bb is and where I could get/scavange/beg a replacement other than order from Canon??
Thanks!!!
Sydney H 2007Oct21 06:05:44 -1000
Very happy to have my EOS 5 back! I bought the XTi earlier this year, but will certainly keep this one around for projects that really require film.
I lost the spring that pops up the button on the control dial somewhere - hopefully not in the camera - but it still works. Got the screws from an old cell phone. Still find it amazing that Canon made such a nice camera with such a fatal flaw.
A tip on the flash: to avoid electrocution, discharge the flash by pressing the shutter button, then immediately turn the knob on the battery door. It won't retract, and won't recharge the capacitors!
Evan Newell 2007Nov21 16:37:47 -1000
Could you please help me because the command dial of my EOS5 has broken in the locked position (off)... So I can't pop up the flash to unscrew the cover ...
Can someone explain me how to do with this issue ????
aurelie 2007Nov28 09:01:50 -1000
really nice, my eos 5 got injured on holidays. Thought just canon would be able to repair it, so i bought another one cause its cheaper, but now i can fix it.
shur 2008Jan18 14:03:45 -1000
Just bought an immaculate A2e off Ebay for £50: the dial hasn't gone...but it is on the way out (smooth detent clockwise, stiff detent anticlockwise)I'm so frightened this page won't be here when I need it Its printing as I type.
Invaluable. Thanks Jim.
Jon Parton 2008Feb26 12:17:10 -1000
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ptdvhunx 2008Apr11 16:35:51 -1000
Good instructions, I just did the job. My dial actually never broke. But it was eminent as it was very tight. So I desided to nip it in the bud. Opened it up, got the spring out and shortend it by two coils. It switches beautifully easily now.
BUT I broke something along the way. As I turn it on now, the flash pops up, and then goes down, and it does that for about 4 cycles of popping and closing and the stops in the up position, the LCD shows dead battery icon.
If remove the battery and put it back in the cycle repeats.
Does anyone know what I did wrong, please!!
Michael N 2008Jun02 14:15:13 -1000
This was perfect. It gave me the understanding to help me fix the command dial on my Fuji FinePix S9000.
Joseph 2008Sep21 13:04:45 -1000
Thanks! The dial on my Elan hadn't broken yet, but was getting quite stiff.
I opened it up, cut two coils from the spring, and put everything back together. The dial works, and it still clicks, but only just.
Oh yeah - I also discharged the flash capacitor with my thumb. Something best avoided. Strange, as my pop-up flash hasn't worked for years. Clearly it's not for lack of juice.
Bill 2009Sep24 14:27:36 -1000
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